Discussion between King Devanampiyatissa and Arhant Mahinda

By Ariesen Ahubudu

King Tissa: Will the Dhamma that you intend to preach be beneficial to my country and to me, Ven. Sir. I shall listen to it only if it is so. If not I shall not listen even if it is the Dhamma.

If my land - the Hela Diva - becomes servile to Jambudvipa by reason of the Dhamma which comes from that land, I do not wish to embrace it. I am the king of this country.

Arhant Mahinda: This Dhamma destroys servility. It brings everlasting bliss.

The King: Is there any such thing as everlasting bliss in this world?

The Arhant: Oh, King, why do you say so?

The King: Ven. Sir, there is no bliss sans sorrow. There is also no sorrow sans bliss. Therefore, how can there be everlasting bliss in this world?

Warmth means less cold. Cold means less warmth. Those who do not know that say that warmth and cold are two different things.

Both are the same, if perceived through the eyes of wisdom.

Similarly there aren’t two things as bliss and sorrow.

Just as much as less cold gives warmth and less warmth gives cold, less sorrow gives bills whilst less bliss gives sorrow.

There is neither everlasting warmth nor everlasting cold. It is only a mental feeling caused by the change from one to another.

Therefore, I do not think there exists an everlasting bliss as you preach. It is only a change from bliss to sorrow and vice versa.

If there is a law which can be taken as "everlasting" it is none other than this change.

The Arahant: Oh King, your mental prowess would astonish the wise.

I am impressed by your viewpoint, as if lit up by a lamp.

The King: Ven. Sir, I too am no less impressed by you. But this position of being impressed would hinder our logic. Isn’t it so, Ven. Sir.

The Arahnt: Yes. Oh King.

The King: If so Ven. Sir, let us keep those feelings aside and resume our debate on "Everlasting Bliss".

Ven. Sir, let us for a moment think that everlasting bliss which I say is non-existent, does in fact exist. Alright. What is the use of acquiring such everlasting bliss?

The Arhant: Oh, King, why do you say so?

The King: Ven. Sir, it is the same even if you enjoy everlasting bliss or everlasting sorrow if viewed through the eyes of wisdom. If there is bliss sans sorrow, one would not feel that it is bliss. If there is sorrow sans bliss, one would not feel that, too, as sorrow. The worm resting on a heap of dirt will feel it is bliss, just as much as a God in heaven does.

The worm and the God take up similar mental states.

The wise who see the difference take that as sorrow and this as bliss.

If there are no huge trees in this forest even bushes will be seen as huge trees. They are differentiated as trees and bushes through identification of this disparity.

One would not feel that it is bliss if there wasn’t sorrow. Therefore, there is no bliss sans sorrow. If there is everlasting happiness anywhere, it will be the same in terms of enjoyment be it in any world or hell.

The Arhant: It is true Oh, King, that there is some truth in your vision. That is the worldly truth. You gauged sorrow and bliss from mundane things. But supra-mundane bliss is not the worldly sorrow and bliss you speak of.

There is neither worldly bliss nor sorrow in supra-mundane bliss. There occur changes as worldly bliss is not everlasting.

This change is a characteristic of worldly bliss and sorrow. I state that supra-mundane bliss is everlasting as there is no such changes thereon. Worldly bliss is uncertain due to this change therein.

Therefore, it is also impermanent, sorrowful and soulless.

Worldly bliss cannot be taken as bliss as it is not free of the three signs "Anithya, Dukkha, Anathma."

The King: Ven. Sir, now I have understood what you say. I offer my veneration to you.

I shall follow the path preached by the Buddha.

I shall make Sri Lanka a hall to preach the Dhamma.